The Joplin Globe has an article on the assessment of the May 10, 2008 killer tornado that ripped through Northeast Oklahoma and Southwest Missouri killing 21 people. The assessment of the handling of the tornado by the National Weather Service should prove to help with future weather events that extend across jurisdictions.
Regardless of the findings, there was quite a bit of lead time with the warnings issued. I think more focus should be put on the public paying attention. Weather alert radios certainly help with that. Everyone should own one!
Sunday, November 29, 2009
Thursday, October 8, 2009
Flooding/Severe Weather - Thursday 10/8
The Storm Prediction Center and the National Weather Service are predicting very heavy rainfall of two to four inches, with locally heavier amounts in some places. There is a slight possibility storms could organize and produce damaging winds.
While the Hazardous Weather Outlook from the Springfield, MO NWS office does not mention the possibility of tornadoes, the Storm Prediction Center does show us on a 2%-5% line for the possibility and mentions it in the Day 1 Convective Outlook.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
While the Hazardous Weather Outlook from the Springfield, MO NWS office does not mention the possibility of tornadoes, the Storm Prediction Center does show us on a 2%-5% line for the possibility and mentions it in the Day 1 Convective Outlook.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Tuesday, September 29, 2009
Severe Weather Possible - Thur 9/30 into Fri 10/1
Updated 9/30/2009.
The National Weather Service Hazardous Weather Outlook (HWO) is calling for the possibility of severe storms late Thursday afternoon into Thursday evening. Weather threats include:
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
The National Weather Service Hazardous Weather Outlook (HWO) is calling for the possibility of severe storms late Thursday afternoon into Thursday evening. Weather threats include:
- damaging downburst winds
- large hail
- locally heavy rainfall
- limited risk of isolated tornadoes
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Springfield, MO Radar is Down
From the National Weather Service in Springfield, MO:
THE WSR-88D DOPPLER RADAR (KSGF) AT SPRINGFIELD MISSOURI IS
NOT OPERATIONAL AT THIS TIME. EXPECTED RESTORATION TIME WILL BE
NOON CDT ON 30 SEPTEMBER (30/1700 UTC).
OTHER DOPPLER RADARS CLOSE TO SPRINGFIELD INCLUDE KINX IN
TULSA...KICT IN WICHITA...KTWX IN TOPEKA...KEAX IN PLEASANT
HILL/KANSAS CITY...KLSX IN ST. LOUIS...KPAH IN PADUCAH
KENTUCKY...KNQA IN MEMPHIS...KLZK IN LITTLE ROCK AND KSRX IN
FORT SMITH ARKANSAS.
Wednesday, September 2, 2009
Storms, storms, storms... at least through Tuesday.
Monday, June 15, 2009
Severe Weather Possible - Mon 6/15 into Tues 6/16
Severe weather is possible later today into the overnight hours for the SW MO area. Threats include:
ecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
- HAIL TO THE SIZE OF GOLF BALLS
- WIND GUSTS TO 60 MPH
- VERY HEAVY RAINFALL AND LOCALIZED FLOODING
- ISOLATED TORNADOES
Publish Post
Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Severe Weather Possible - Wed. June 10th
Another round of severe weather is possible today. Some storms may exist this afternoon, but as so typical in SW MO, the main threat will be late afternoon into tonight. The threats include:
- LARGE HAIL TO THE SIZE OF QUARTERS
- DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60 MPH
- LOCALIZED FLASH FLOODING
- POSSIBLY ISOLATED TORNADOES
Tuesday, June 9, 2009
Severe Weather Possible - Tuesday, June 9th.
Severe weather is possible in SE KS and SW MO later this afternoon, evening and into the overnight hours. Golf ball sized hail, damaging thunderstorm winds, and tornadoes are possible.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Sunday, May 24, 2009
Storm Spotting Education.
First of all I would like to thank Jeff for asking me to contribute to the site. I have been a routine visitor for some time now and I hope to provide some interesting posts that will not only inform and entertain but educate as well.
I would like to inform readers of a great online weather training class. The class is now a requirement for all spotter network members. For those of you that are not familiar with Spotter Network I will give you a quick description. Spotternetwork is a web based application that utilizes gps and alternate feeds to report severe weather to local skywarn spotter networks and the NWS. Checkout Spotternetwork.org here.
The training class is web based and is open to anyone that wants to educate themselves about all types of weather activity. The class goes into just enough detail that it will not bore or intimidate the amateur weather enthusiasts. The class is loaded with photos, animations and videos to help educate the student. I would suggest the class to all spotters and weather enthusiasts.
The weather training class is hosted at NSR Online Weather Training
. Check it out! You can never have enough training!
Tim - KD0DJQ
Stormwx.net
Thursday, May 21, 2009
Tim Frazier - New Contributor for OzarkStorms.com
OzarkStorms.com welcomes a new contributor to the site. Tim Frazier (KD0DJQ) is from Carl Junction, MO and will help provide content for the site. Tim was born and raised in the area and has been interested in weather for as long as he can remember. Tim helped organize the local SkyWarn group in the Joplin area with the help of Marshal Graham (KD0DJR). They are active in SkyWarn and run the MoKanEp.com SkyWarn site.
Tim's goal in storm spotting/chasing is to disseminate information to the National Weather Service to help protect the public, and also does his part to get severe weather forecasts to the public through the MoKanEp.com site and the MoKan SkyWarn mailing list.
Thanks to Tim for jumping in to help with the OzarkStorms.com site. It will be nice to have a perspective from the four state area further to the southwest of Springfield.
Tim's goal in storm spotting/chasing is to disseminate information to the National Weather Service to help protect the public, and also does his part to get severe weather forecasts to the public through the MoKanEp.com site and the MoKan SkyWarn mailing list.
Thanks to Tim for jumping in to help with the OzarkStorms.com site. It will be nice to have a perspective from the four state area further to the southwest of Springfield.
Monday, May 11, 2009
Severe Weather Threat - Wed. May 13, 2009
There is a threat for severe weather in SW MO on Wednesday. The area is under a Moderate Risk box from the Storm Prediction Center. The Moderate Risk has been there for three days, which is a rare occurrence.
The threats include winds over 80 MPH, baseball size hail, torrential rainfall and tornadoes.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
The threats include winds over 80 MPH, baseball size hail, torrential rainfall and tornadoes.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Friday, May 8, 2009
Tornado and Storm Damage Across SW MO
Reports are flowing in from the media about damage across Southwest MO. There have been a few reported tornadoes on the ground, including in Republic, MO and Strafford, MO. Here are some of the damage reports. More later...
- Fair Grove high school (Greene, Co.)
- KSNF TV tower blown down in Joplin, MO (Jasper Co.)
- Barn blown into road in Clever, MO (Christian Co.)
- Tractor trailer overturned I-44 at mile marker 83 (Webster Co.)
Thursday, May 7, 2009
Severe Storms Possible - Thursday 5/7/09
Severe storms will be possible in SW MO this evening, especially after 10 p.m. The NWS reports that large hail, damaging winds, heavy rainfall and isolated tornadoes are possible. The Storm Prediction Center currently shows (as of 17:10) a 5% chance of tornadoes in the SW MO area.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Friday, May 1, 2009
Carthage Storm - 5/1/2009
Friday, April 10, 2009
Confirmed Tornado Hits Nixa, MO - 4/9/09
On Thursday April 9th, from about 8:20 PM to 8:23 PM an EF-0 with winds of approximately 80 MPH touched down in Nixa, MO. Trees and fences were damaged, as well as some minor damage to homes.
I opted to not go out last night because it was a night time event with heavy precipitation, and I wasn't feeling so well. I was at home last night, on the phone with my dad about that time, and it was pretty nasty in Nixa.
The NWS report can be found here.
I opted to not go out last night because it was a night time event with heavy precipitation, and I wasn't feeling so well. I was at home last night, on the phone with my dad about that time, and it was pretty nasty in Nixa.
The NWS report can be found here.
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
Severe Weather Possible - Thursday, 4/9
UPDATE: The Storm Prediction Center has a Moderate risk for severe weather in far SW MO, SE KS, NE OK and NW AR. There is a 10%-15% hatched area for an EF-2 or stronger tornado in these areas. Please stay tuned to local weather coverage.
Severe storms with damaging winds and golf ball sized hail will be possible Thursday afternoon and evening. There is also a possibility of tornadoes. Current timing estimates are 4 p.m. for SE Kansas and after 6 p.m. for S Missouri.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Severe storms with damaging winds and golf ball sized hail will be possible Thursday afternoon and evening. There is also a possibility of tornadoes. Current timing estimates are 4 p.m. for SE Kansas and after 6 p.m. for S Missouri.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Saturday, March 28, 2009
KSPR's Surviving The Storm And Yours Truly
KSPR -33 will be presenting Surviving The Storm on Sunday, April 5th at 5pm. Senior Meteorologist Kevin Lighty dedicated part of this special to SkyWarn. Jim Sellars and I were interviewed and the 3 1/2 minute segment is now on YouTube. Kevin Lighty and team did a great job with this piece, and did great justice to SkyWarn and Amateur Radio. Thanks for not making me look like a dork, Kevin. At least I don't think I look like a dork. I guess you can be the judge.
Friday, March 13, 2009
Interesting Article On Tornadoes Fueled By Land Use
Wired Science reports that climate change and urban sprawl fueled a freak tornado in Atlanta one year ago. According to climatologists, urban sprawl caused the storm to intensify and create the killer tornado. Read the article here.
Monday, March 9, 2009
Severe Weather Threat Mon 3/9-Tues 3/10
This evening and into the overnight hours, severe weather will be possible. Golf ball sized hail, damaging winds and isolated tornadoes are possible.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
UPDATE: Tuesday 3/10 - Expect storms to fire near or after 2pm. There is an isolated tornado threat. Don't forget the statewide tornado drill is at 1:30pm.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
UPDATE: Tuesday 3/10 - Expect storms to fire near or after 2pm. There is an isolated tornado threat. Don't forget the statewide tornado drill is at 1:30pm.
Friday, March 6, 2009
Strong to Severe Storms Sat 3/6 and Sun 3/7
Strong to severe storms will be possible Saturday night into early Sunday. The main threat will be large hail and damaging winds.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Severe Storms Possible - Thursday 2/26
Severe storms are possible this evening if conditions come together. Large hail, damaging winds and a limited risk for tornadoes exists.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
Free No-Ads Weather Underground Offer
Weather Underground is giving away 1-year ad-free premium membership using coupon code BAVV5. Thanks RileyRR
Enjoy!
- Click here (( http://slickdeals.net/?pno=18323&lno=1&afsrc=1 ))
- Provide your email, password and handle (nickname)
- Mark "Complete Registration"
- After receiving a confirmation email with activation code, activate your account
- At payment page, enter coupon BAVV5
Enjoy!
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
For Blogaroni Award Visitors
Below are the specifically nominated blog postings for the Blogaroni awards.
Blog Post of the Year Nomination
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - Tornado Outbreak in SW MO
Best Special Event Coverage
January 7th and 8th 2008 Tornado Outbreak
Isolated Tornadoes Possible Tonight - January 7, 2008
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - Tornado Outbreak in SW MO
January 7-8, 2008 - Information Update
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - The Hard Learned Safety Lesson
Doppler Radar Indicated Tornadoes - The "Hook Echo"
Best Special Event Coverage
March 18, 2008 Flooding Event
Severe Flooding in SW MO
March 18, 2008 SW MO Flooding Followup
Blog Post of the Year Nomination
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - Tornado Outbreak in SW MO
Best Special Event Coverage
January 7th and 8th 2008 Tornado Outbreak
Isolated Tornadoes Possible Tonight - January 7, 2008
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - Tornado Outbreak in SW MO
January 7-8, 2008 - Information Update
January 7th and 8th, 2008 - The Hard Learned Safety Lesson
Doppler Radar Indicated Tornadoes - The "Hook Echo"
Best Special Event Coverage
March 18, 2008 Flooding Event
Severe Flooding in SW MO
March 18, 2008 SW MO Flooding Followup
Thursday, February 12, 2009
Tuesday 2/10/09 EF-1 Tornado Update - Springfield, MO
Tuesday's unwarned tornado was no ordinary tornado. Kevin Lighty, Chief Meteorologist at KSPR, put together a great blog article describing why this tornado was different, and the reason why the radar was unable to detect it, preventing The National Weather Service from issuing a warning. Ted Keller, Chief Meteorologist at KOLR10/Ozarks Fox Weather Labs, also put together a blog article explaining why this was difficult to detect.
For those out there doubting the system, let me just say this...Steve Runnels, Warning Coordination Meteorologist at the National Weather Service said it best. Last year there were 64 tornadoes in the County Warning Area that the Springfield NWS office is responsible for. This is double the annual norm. The average lead time was 19.5 minutes. 19.5 minutes is a good amount of time to prepare and take shelter, and Doppler Radar plays a big part in that.
Radar works, it just doesn't work to predict all types of tornadoes. This reiterates the importance of SkyWarn and other spotter type groups. Radar can't do it all, but it does a great job. Having ground truth information from storm spotters works in conjunction with radar data and is used by the NWS to provide warnings. This event was at night, so spotting would have been difficult to impossible, depending on the rain. This particular storm was not anticipated to have any severe attributes, so there was not focus put on it.
In the end, this goes to show the importance of paying attention to Watches. A Tornado Watch, which we were under on Tuesday evening, means conditions are favorable for the development of severe thunderstorms capable of producing tornadoes. There's a reason tornado watches are issued, as we found out Tuesday night.
The posted picture courtesy of Daniel Hirsch. 4300 block of S. Glenn.
For those out there doubting the system, let me just say this...Steve Runnels, Warning Coordination Meteorologist at the National Weather Service said it best. Last year there were 64 tornadoes in the County Warning Area that the Springfield NWS office is responsible for. This is double the annual norm. The average lead time was 19.5 minutes. 19.5 minutes is a good amount of time to prepare and take shelter, and Doppler Radar plays a big part in that.
Radar works, it just doesn't work to predict all types of tornadoes. This reiterates the importance of SkyWarn and other spotter type groups. Radar can't do it all, but it does a great job. Having ground truth information from storm spotters works in conjunction with radar data and is used by the NWS to provide warnings. This event was at night, so spotting would have been difficult to impossible, depending on the rain. This particular storm was not anticipated to have any severe attributes, so there was not focus put on it.
In the end, this goes to show the importance of paying attention to Watches. A Tornado Watch, which we were under on Tuesday evening, means conditions are favorable for the development of severe thunderstorms capable of producing tornadoes. There's a reason tornado watches are issued, as we found out Tuesday night.
The posted picture courtesy of Daniel Hirsch. 4300 block of S. Glenn.
Wednesday, February 11, 2009
EF-1 Tornado Causes Damage in Springfield
At approximately 10:50 PM on Tuesday, February 10th, a 200 yard wide EF-1 tornado caused damage in Springfield Initial survey reports show damage occurred just southwest of the intersection of Republic and Scenic, extending to Fremont and Catalpa. Winds were estimated around 100 MPH. Approximately two dozen homes and businesses were impacted, including the collapse of a duplex apartment garage collapse and Commerce bank at Republic and Scenic. No injuries were reported.
More info here at NWS site.
I have received a couple of first hand accounts. One from someone who lives in the area where it initially touched down. He heard the roar, and the house made a "whistling" sound. He commented to his wife that he wondered if it was a tornado, but they both wrote it off to wind and rain. He was quite surprised today. Additionally, two trained storm spotters, Rich Vogt (KB9YZE) and Rod Kittleman (K0ADI) witnessed the tornado cross in front of them. They assisted with blocking traffic due to debris in the road at National and Sunshine. Their vehicles are the two on the left in this picture I stole from KTTS.
More info here at NWS site.
I have received a couple of first hand accounts. One from someone who lives in the area where it initially touched down. He heard the roar, and the house made a "whistling" sound. He commented to his wife that he wondered if it was a tornado, but they both wrote it off to wind and rain. He was quite surprised today. Additionally, two trained storm spotters, Rich Vogt (KB9YZE) and Rod Kittleman (K0ADI) witnessed the tornado cross in front of them. They assisted with blocking traffic due to debris in the road at National and Sunshine. Their vehicles are the two on the left in this picture I stole from KTTS.
Sunday, February 8, 2009
Severe Storms Tue 2/10-Wed 2/11
The National Weather Service is calling for strong to severe storms Tuesday night into Wednesday. This includes the risk for:
SE KS and SW MO will be affected around 6 p.m. moving into central MO by 9 p.m. Now is the time to prepare.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
If you have any questions, my email address can be found in the bottom right of this blog.
- Wind gusts to 70 MPH
- Golf ball sized hail
- Isolated tornadoes
- Heavy rain/flash flooding
SE KS and SW MO will be affected around 6 p.m. moving into central MO by 9 p.m. Now is the time to prepare.
You should stay tuned to local weather forecasts. Make sure your NOAA All Hazards Radio is on and backed up by battery. If you don't own a NOAA All Hazards Radio, you should. Click the link for a previous blog post on selecting one.
If you have any questions, my email address can be found in the bottom right of this blog.
Sunday, February 1, 2009
Wild Tornado Video
This is a video I remember from a VHS tape I watched years ago. The guy filming gets zapped by lightning, then goes back at filming the oncoming tornado. He ends up getting hit by debris while videoing his neighbors mobile homes shredding.
Crazy Stuff!
Crazy Stuff!
Friday, January 30, 2009
Best Tornado Videos - 2008
Visit ChaseTheStorms.com to vote on the best tornado video of 2008. Some of these are insanely intense videos.
ChaseTheStorms.com
ChaseTheStorms.com
Monday, January 26, 2009
SW MO Ice Assault!
Please listen close. I am born to drive in winter precipitation. I love it. I never panic, and love the challenge, and I rarely regret it. So listen to me carefully... DO NOT DRIVE IF YOU CAN AVOID IT. It is VERY dangerous out there. I watched one care drive through a neighborhood sign, and it's 10x worse now than it was then. The main roads in Nixa are freezing already...it was just the turn lanes and such.
Please monitor TV and Radio. Nixa and Springfield are already out of school... And the rain is coming down pretty good right now. Let's pray we don't have to deal with power outages.
Please monitor TV and Radio. Nixa and Springfield are already out of school... And the rain is coming down pretty good right now. Let's pray we don't have to deal with power outages.
Sunday, January 25, 2009
Winter Storm To Impact Region Mon 1/26 - Wed 1/28
A winter storm is expected to impact Southwest MO starting Monday afternoon and possibly going on into Wednesday. This includes the possibility of ice and sleet. The time to prepare is now.
Don't forget January 2007 when lots of folks were without power for 14 days. February 2008 was worse, but since the trees had already been cleaned out from the 2007 storm, it wasn't as big of an impact as it could have been.
NWS Winter Weather Briefing Page
Don't forget January 2007 when lots of folks were without power for 14 days. February 2008 was worse, but since the trees had already been cleaned out from the 2007 storm, it wasn't as big of an impact as it could have been.
NWS Winter Weather Briefing Page
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
To All My Meteorologist Friends Out There!
To all my meteorologist friends out there. Today we salute you Mr. Excited About Storms Weatherman! (and weatherwoman..sorry Natalie).
LINK UPDATED
Thanks for the link Karl!
LINK UPDATED
Thanks for the link Karl!
Thursday, January 15, 2009
2009 Spotter Training Schedule
The National Weather Service has posted the 2009 SkyWarn Spotter training schedule. This training is a must for those who want to participate in SkyWarn, but also valuable for those who are just merely interested.
The eSpotter tool is very valuable to report weather data back to the National Weather Service, and this training will better prepare you to do that as well, regardless of your interest in getting out and spotting.
The eSpotter tool is very valuable to report weather data back to the National Weather Service, and this training will better prepare you to do that as well, regardless of your interest in getting out and spotting.
Saturday, January 3, 2009
Show-Me Opinions Post On Storm Sirens
Newsy, over at Show-Me Opinions is a weather weenie, and occasionally ventures into my sacred weather blogging territory. I'm going to let that slide for now, since I do find the posts interesting. :)
Here's a good write up on storm sirens and the ignorance of some people.
I will take this opportunity to mention that storm sirens in most areas sound for 3 minutes, then shut off for 3, and continue in a cycle during the warning. A siren shutting off does not mean it's all clear, and a siren sounding a second time does not mean it's all clear. Here's a previous post in more detail.
Here's a good write up on storm sirens and the ignorance of some people.
I will take this opportunity to mention that storm sirens in most areas sound for 3 minutes, then shut off for 3, and continue in a cycle during the warning. A siren shutting off does not mean it's all clear, and a siren sounding a second time does not mean it's all clear. Here's a previous post in more detail.
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